Aug 8, 2023 05:12 PM
https://youtu.be/n2jUyrJsgeM
(video excerpt) DEAN RADIN: It's because as you look through history about the nature of matter, it has changed historically. It is becoming more and more ephemeral, and I imagine it will continue to become more ephemeral [abstract?].
So your view is in essence that there is one kind of thing, that's material. But it is much richer and deeper and more complicated than maybe some would believe today. And therefore as it becomes enlarged, that one thing will encompass all of the things that are necessary to explain consciousness
Yes, but it may not explain gods and angels and demons. Maybe it'll explain things that are sort of at the edge, that seem to have something to do with information or energy. But I can still see it as a form of material, just that we expand our notion of what we meant by that term.
So you would then say that consciousness helps expand our sense of the material world.
Yeah, in fact consciousness could also be seen as a type of material. It's a substance -- I mean, we don't use the word "mind stuff" without thinking that it's a kind of a stuff.
So how do we do that? How do you get mind stuff that is a real stuff in some way that is not dualistic?
Well if you imagine that matter in a more refined state is energy and energy, in a more refined state it's consciousness.
So what you have to do then, if you want to be a monist --only one kind of thing -- you want that monism to be materialist. It has to dramatically expand materialism, so that it at its core, or at the most fundamental level it's consciousness.
Is that so radical?
Well, yeah, I'd say I'd say it's certainly against the traditional worldview of science today.
Perhaps.
I mean maybe we move in different circles here.
Yeah, I don't know, in my circles it's basically a panpsychist view. Which I find to be the one that makes the most sense to me.
Panpsychic meaning that consciousness is in everything -- in some proto form or something.
Right, and the emerging properties from consciousness gives rise to energy and matter, essentially. I know it's a little bit different than what is ordinarily thought of as panpsychism. I'm actually imagining that it is a substrate, a kind of substance from which other things emerge and we call those energy and matter.
Now that is not classical idealism. Classical idealism says that at its basics, everything is consciousness, and matter is the illusion.
Right.
And that's not what you're saying, you say matter is real.
Right. It's all real. It's just different levels of refinement of reality. And it's partially because I have a physical science background. So I find it easier to imagine it's all really one substance. I don't generally go towards dualistic arguments, because why stop there? Maybe three, maybe four, maybe ten -- that's why so one is simpler.
Closer To Truth: "Does consciousness defeat materialism?" (Dean Radin)
(video excerpt) DEAN RADIN: It's because as you look through history about the nature of matter, it has changed historically. It is becoming more and more ephemeral, and I imagine it will continue to become more ephemeral [abstract?].
So your view is in essence that there is one kind of thing, that's material. But it is much richer and deeper and more complicated than maybe some would believe today. And therefore as it becomes enlarged, that one thing will encompass all of the things that are necessary to explain consciousness
Yes, but it may not explain gods and angels and demons. Maybe it'll explain things that are sort of at the edge, that seem to have something to do with information or energy. But I can still see it as a form of material, just that we expand our notion of what we meant by that term.
So you would then say that consciousness helps expand our sense of the material world.
Yeah, in fact consciousness could also be seen as a type of material. It's a substance -- I mean, we don't use the word "mind stuff" without thinking that it's a kind of a stuff.
So how do we do that? How do you get mind stuff that is a real stuff in some way that is not dualistic?
Well if you imagine that matter in a more refined state is energy and energy, in a more refined state it's consciousness.
So what you have to do then, if you want to be a monist --only one kind of thing -- you want that monism to be materialist. It has to dramatically expand materialism, so that it at its core, or at the most fundamental level it's consciousness.
Is that so radical?
Well, yeah, I'd say I'd say it's certainly against the traditional worldview of science today.
Perhaps.
I mean maybe we move in different circles here.
Yeah, I don't know, in my circles it's basically a panpsychist view. Which I find to be the one that makes the most sense to me.
Panpsychic meaning that consciousness is in everything -- in some proto form or something.
Right, and the emerging properties from consciousness gives rise to energy and matter, essentially. I know it's a little bit different than what is ordinarily thought of as panpsychism. I'm actually imagining that it is a substrate, a kind of substance from which other things emerge and we call those energy and matter.
Now that is not classical idealism. Classical idealism says that at its basics, everything is consciousness, and matter is the illusion.
Right.
And that's not what you're saying, you say matter is real.
Right. It's all real. It's just different levels of refinement of reality. And it's partially because I have a physical science background. So I find it easier to imagine it's all really one substance. I don't generally go towards dualistic arguments, because why stop there? Maybe three, maybe four, maybe ten -- that's why so one is simpler.
Closer To Truth: "Does consciousness defeat materialism?" (Dean Radin)