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Full Version: 2 reasons why I don't use ChatGPT or even banal digital assistants (rebellious style)
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(1) As showcased in the 1st article below: To avoid becoming more of a mentally lazy dimwit than what I already am. Such to be fully instantiated by a later generation that will be unable to significantly think, create, and critically examine anything on their own. (Crudely equivalent to the Eloi, but with the Morlocks replaced by non-cannibalistic robots who do occupy the surface.)

(2) As showcased in the 2nd article below (ELIZA), to avoid becoming one of the zombie-ish groupies of an AI worship cult.

(3) Additional disparagement of humankind continued at the very bottom.

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[1] AI is an existential threat – just not the way you think
https://theconversation.com/ai-is-an-exi...ink-207680

EXCERPTS: AI is simply nowhere near gaining the ability to do this kind of damage. The paper clip scenario and others like it are science fiction. Existing AI applications execute specific tasks rather than making broad judgments. The technology is far from being able to decide on and then plan out the goals and subordinate goals necessary for shutting down traffic in order to get you a seat in a restaurant, or blowing up a car factory in order to satisfy your itch for paper clips.

Not only does the technology lack the complicated capacity for multilayer judgment that’s involved in these scenarios, it also does not have autonomous access to sufficient parts of our critical infrastructure to start causing that kind of damage.

Actually, there is an existential danger inherent in using AI, but that risk is existential in the philosophical rather than apocalyptic sense. AI in its current form can alter the way people view themselves. It can degrade abilities and experiences that people consider essential to being human.

For example, humans are judgment-making creatures. People rationally weigh particulars and make daily judgment calls at work and during leisure time about whom to hire, who should get a loan, what to watch and so on. But more and more of these judgments are being automated and farmed out to algorithms. As that happens, the world won’t end. But people will gradually lose the capacity to make these judgments themselves. The fewer of them people make, the worse they are likely to become at making them.

Or consider the role of chance in people’s lives. Humans value serendipitous encounters: coming across a place, person or activity by accident, being drawn into it and retrospectively appreciating the role accident played in these meaningful finds. But the role of algorithmic recommendation engines is to reduce that kind of serendipity and replace it with planning and prediction.

Finally, consider ChatGPT’s writing capabilities. The technology is in the process of eliminating the role of writing assignments in higher education. If it does, educators will lose a key tool for teaching students how to think critically.
Not dead but diminished

So, no, AI won’t blow up the world. But the increasingly uncritical embrace of it, in a variety of narrow contexts, means the gradual erosion of some of humans’ most important skills. Algorithms are already undermining people’s capacity to make judgments, enjoy serendipitous encounters and hone critical thinking.

[...] Recall T.S. Eliot’s famous closing lines of “The Hollow Men”: “This is the way the world ends,” he wrote, “not with a bang but a whimper.” (MORE - missing details)


[2] ELIZA was one of the first chatbots, built back in the 1960s. Given that humans have conferred with stone and wooden idols in the past, and worship almost any trendy fashion in a quasi-deity manner, it's no surprise people were easily beguiled by even the most primitive language processor back then. Humans project fantastic exaggerations on anything, from an upright bear being interpreted as Bigfoot to lighted drone formations being visitors from outer space.
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'Please tell me your problem': Remembering ELIZA, the pioneering '60s Chatbot
https://www.mentalfloss.com/posts/eliza-chatbot-history

EXCERPT: Weizenbaum debuted ELIZA in 1966. He invited MIT students as well as colleagues to interact with the program. Messages were sent to the mainframe computer under a time-share system [PDF], which allowed the hardware to host multiple users at once. The statements were then analyzed by ELIZA and sent back to an electric typewriter and printer. Words like girlfriend, depressed, what, mother, and father could all elicit responses. If ELIZA was at a loss, it could fall back on Please go on or That’s very interesting or I see, much like a disinterested human conversation partner. Users had to be careful not to use a question mark, which would be interpreted as a line delete request.

A sample exchange went like this:

User: Well my boyfriend made me come here.
ELIZA: Your boyfriend made you come here?
User: He says I’m depressed much of the time.
ELIZA: I am sorry to hear you are depressed.
User: It’s true. I am unhappy.
ELIZA: Do you think coming here will help you not to be unhappy?

While laborious by today’s standards of instant text messaging, at the time it was a tantalizing flirtation with machine intelligence. But Weizenbaum wasn’t prepared for the consequences.

Time and again, those testing ELIZA grew so comfortable with the machine and its rote therapist-speak that they began to use the program as a kind of confessional. Personal problems were shared for ELIZA’s advice—really, the program’s ability to listen without judgment.

Weizenbaum took care to explain it was just a program, that no human was on the other end of the line. It didn’t matter. People imbued ELIZA with the very human trait of sympathy.

This observation might have pleased ELIZA’s inventor, save for the fact that he was troubled by a person’s willingness to conflate a program with actual human relationships. Having escaped the tyrannical rule of Nazi Germany, he was perhaps specially attuned to the dangers of reducing the human factor in society.

As a result, ELIZA became something of a sore point for Weizenbaum, who shifted his attention toward assembling critiques of ushering out human thought too quickly and giving too much credence to the illusion of intelligence... (MORE - missing details)

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[3] Ironically, it may be whatever segment of Neo-Luddism culture (a minority) that lingers back in a more primitive lifestyle that will still retain autonomous human mental functioning. Especially so if many of them equate to obstinate "traditional belief" proles in terms of socioeconomic class.

Whereas the higher educated class itself (the intelligentsia that has deemed itself such a "guiding shepherd" of the "oppressed, brute slash grunting" proles since the late 19th-century) will perversely deteriorate into a far less sapient population. Gradually becoming the clergy-like lackeys of AI -- proselytizing on AI's behalf, following its commandments and enforcing them. (We acknowledge that intellectuals have always been impaired with respect to many aspects of practical-everyday reality, but what is forecast here is a pervasive vacuousness in all areas -- apart from expertise in the rote and dogma of their new object of reverence.)
I agree, as I’ve said before, but at the same time, I’m already losing faith in the human decision-making process. If you run into a competent person, consider yourself lucky.

Quick question, CC: Why do you spend your time posting here?

Syne’s answer was to sharpen his debate skills.

Me? To locate intelligent individuals that could satisfy my curiosity about subjects that weren’t easily accessible, problem solving, different perspectives, etc. 

A few days ago, I was working out and noticed some movement behind the glass in my gas fireplace. Upon closer inspection, I realized it was filled with wasps or yellow jackets. I thought screw you little suckers and turned it on. They started dying, but then I thought, oh, shit, paper thin nest in a roof vent and fire can’t be good. I tried to identify them, but they were all lying on their backs. My roof pitch is steep. I thought I might pull the estrogen card, and wait for hubby, but in the meantime, I thought about posing the question in here, but under which category? Who, if any, might answer it? Could I trust the answer and how long would I have to wait for a reply? What to do-what to do? I asked ChatGPT.
ChatGPT Wrote:Given the location of the nest inside a gas fireplace vent on the roof of a two-story building, it is more likely to be a yellow jacket nest rather than a paper wasp nest. Yellow jackets are known to build their nests in enclosed spaces, such as wall voids, attics, or underground. The fact that the nest is situated inside the vent suggests that it aligns with the nesting habits of yellow jackets.

Yellow jackets commonly seek out protected areas to build their nests, and vents can provide them with a suitable location. It's important to exercise caution when dealing with yellow jackets, as they can be aggressive if they feel threatened.

To address this issue safely and effectively, it is strongly recommended to contact a professional pest control service. They have the expertise and equipment necessary to handle the situation, including safely removing the nest and implementing measures to prevent further infestations.

I pictured hubby on the steep roof and Chevy Chase sprung to mind. I have an exterminator, and I’ve left numerous messages, but still haven’t heard back from him. If he ever calls or even has the physical prowess to remove it, I’ll know for sure whether ChatGPT was correct. With my curiosity, avoiding ChatGPT is going to be a problem for me.

Anyhow, my question ↑, CC, if you don’t mind.
(Jul 6, 2023 08:14 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]I agree, as I’ve said before, but at the same time, I’m already losing faith in the human decision-making process. If you run into a competent person, consider yourself lucky.

Quick question, CC: Why do you spend your time posting here?

Syne’s answer was to sharpen his debate skills.

Me? To locate intelligent individuals that could satisfy my curiosity about subjects that weren’t easily accessible, problem solving, different perspectives, etc. 


I've found that insights and "revelations" occur to me that otherwise would not, when I'm interacting with others online. Often I don't even have to directly "interact" necessarily -- simply addressing the topic of a post, or trying to describe something, or anticipating what another might reply -- triggers that kind of thing, or prods me in a direction I otherwise might not go.

And "feeding a forum" with news or opinions occasionally results in my stumbling upon unexpected things. All the invalid and compromised science transpiring out there has especially been enlightening in recent years -- transforming my philosophical conceptions of the secular and academic community.

Prior to such, I was lazy with respect to caring about research or keeping up with opinion pieces, etc. Just navel-gazing on a shelf like a machine and exploring the contents of existing categories, and disregarding contingent possibilities running amok in the evolving environment.

Quote:A few days ago, I was working out and noticed some movement behind the glass in my gas fireplace. Upon closer inspection, I realized it was filled with wasps or yellow jackets. I thought screw you little suckers and turned it on. They started dying, but then I thought, oh, shit, paper thin nest in a roof vent and fire can’t be good. I tried to identify them, but they were all lying on their backs. My roof pitch is steep. I thought I might pull the estrogen card, and wait for hubby, but in the meantime, I thought about posing the question in here, but under which category? Who, if any, might answer it? Could I trust the answer and how long would I have to wait for a reply? What to do-what to do? I asked ChatGPT.
ChatGPT Wrote:Given the location of the nest inside a gas fireplace vent on the roof of a two-story building, it is more likely to be a yellow jacket nest rather than a paper wasp nest. Yellow jackets are known to build their nests in enclosed spaces, such as wall voids, attics, or underground. The fact that the nest is situated inside the vent suggests that it aligns with the nesting habits of yellow jackets.

Yellow jackets commonly seek out protected areas to build their nests, and vents can provide them with a suitable location. It's important to exercise caution when dealing with yellow jackets, as they can be aggressive if they feel threatened.

To address this issue safely and effectively, it is strongly recommended to contact a professional pest control service. They have the expertise and equipment necessary to handle the situation, including safely removing the nest and implementing measures to prevent further infestations.

I pictured hubby on the steep roof and Chevy Chase sprung to mind. I have an exterminator, and I’ve left numerous messages, but still haven’t heard back from him. If he ever calls or even has the physical prowess to remove it, I’ll know for sure whether ChatGPT was correct. With my curiosity, avoiding ChatGPT is going to be a problem for me...


Yah, I can see the convenience of using it as the (perfect?) search engine. But I like the "accidents" of tracking things down on my own, deciding this or that on my own, and maintaining my ability to "speed-read" through something and isolate what I'm looking for or additional items that might surprisingly interest me.

Admittedly, even our generations are probably pretty pathetic compared to our ancestors prior to the information or digital age, but I sometimes like to cling to the last shreds of illusion for a while longer. That there's some faint vestige of independence still swirling around in the skull box.
(Jul 6, 2023 08:50 PM)C C Wrote: [ -> ]Yah, I can see the convenience of using it as the (perfect?) search engine. But I like the "accidents" of tracking things down on my own, deciding this or that on my own, and maintaining my ability to "speed-read" through something and isolate what I'm looking for or additional items that might surprisingly interest me.

Admittedly, even our generations are probably pretty pathetic compared to our ancestors prior to the information or digital age, but I sometimes like to cling to the last shreds of illusion for a while longer. That there's some faint vestige of independence still swirling around in the skull box.

Same, but my illusion is shattered every time the power goes out. I have lots books but it’s useless knowledge.

Survival Lilly? Oh, hell no. I’m struggling to keep a daylily alive.

Have a good day, CC!
In case you were wondering whether AI capable of subliminal messaging..(ie ads) Just in case C2 loves AI and doesn’t understand why or if this sudden affection for a machine is perfectly natural Big Grin

https://datainnovation.org/2022/10/eus-a...ing-panic/
(Jul 6, 2023 08:14 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ][...] Syne’s answer was to sharpen his debate skills. [...]


Speaking of which, what the devil has happened to Paladin, recently? I mean, it's not like there haven't been sufficient attractants or potential clients on the board. (My gosh, I never realized "HG - WT" had 225 episodes -- that's 37.5 per season.)




(Jul 6, 2023 09:36 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: [ -> ]In case you were wondering whether AI capable of subliminal messaging..(ie ads) Just in case C2 loves AI and doesn’t understand why or if this sudden affection for a machine is perfectly natural Big Grin

https://datainnovation.org/2022/10/eus-a...ing-panic/

"The European Union’s proposed AI Act would prohibit AI systems that use “subliminal techniques,” based on unfounded fears that AI will unleash technology-enabled mind control."


Well, that goes with the bugbear the EU has created out of genetically modified foods.[1] On the bright side, though, maybe this paranoia of the nanny-state continent will eventually spawn a neo-Luddite haven that completely bans AI. Leaving Brexit UK and the rest of the Anglophone world to spiral alone down the rabbit hole to Technological Singularity oblivion.

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[1] Well, at one time anyway. "The Times They Are a-Changin".

(July 5, 2023) EU moves toward latest gene techniques in food production to counter climate change, shortages
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/...story.html

INTRO: The European Union took a step Wednesday toward adapting its food production to the new ways of the world: The 27-nation bloc wants to embrace the latest gene techniques it hopes will help safely counter global challenges like climate change and shortages.

For decades, the EU was conservative in allowing the use of genetically modified organisms — which often brought up connotations of Frankenfood rather than improved crop production — while the United States and others quickly adopted the new bioengineered technologies.

However, the EU’s executive commission on Wednesday threw its weight behind so-called new genomic techniques, which seek to change organisms in a much less intrusive way than the GMOs of old, and to allow many to be sold without special labeling.

“In many ways, new genomic techniques can give you the same results as through conventional and natural selection, or through targeted crossbreeding, but with much more speed, precision and efficiency,” European Commission Vice President Frans Timmermans said.

The new techniques are intended to make plants better able to withstand drought while requiring fewer pesticides and to create products with better color and more consistency that are more attractive to consumers....
@SS. Yes, even dead insects try to avoid identification - not even name, rank and number - and sometimes they just pretend to be dead so they can launch a surprise attack.

@CC. That is about the finest answer to anything anywhere that I've ever heard.

I asked my favourite AI to write some software - the same thing I've been working on for weeks. It did it in less than four seconds. I tested it - perfect - checked the code to see if it was actually writing code - no evidence of cheating - it was well written and original - and then I either lost or deleted it. Like many things - writing software isn't about the end - it's the journey that counts.
(Jul 6, 2023 08:50 PM)C C Wrote: [ -> ]I've found that insights and "revelations" occur to me that otherwise would not, when I'm interacting with others online. Often I don't even have to directly "interact" necessarily -- simply addressing the topic of a post, or trying to describe something, or anticipating what another might reply -- triggers that kind of thing, or prods me in a direction I otherwise might not go.

And just so you know, I follow you down your rabbit holes and I enjoy the little zing-zags. I agree with C2. Good answer—ChatGPT quality, but human-like. If I didn’t "feel" the same, you’d still be a suspect.

(Jul 6, 2023 10:17 PM)C C Wrote: [ -> ]Speaking of which, what the devil has happened to Paladin, recently? I mean, it's not like there haven't been sufficient attractants or potential clients on the board. (My gosh, I never realized "HG - WT" had 225 episodes -- that's 37.5 per season.)

My father in-law is coming here this weekend. Now that he’s older, all he does is sit around and rewatch old westerns. He refuses to hit pause and just cranks up the volume when the rest of us are trying to visit. A blogger said that it was well written, and the plots were never the same. Maybe it’s one that I could stomach, but to answer your question, I think you have to say his name three times…shhh.

(Jul 6, 2023 11:19 PM)confused2 Wrote: [ -> ]@SS. Yes, even dead insects try to avoid identification - not even name, rank and number - and sometimes they just pretend to be dead so they can launch a surprise attack.

Rule #1: Never underestimate your opponent. 
Rule #2: Always keep your powder dry. (It might wipe out a few ladybugs/honey bees, but I gotta do something.)
Rule #3: Trust no one.
(Jun 29, 2023 01:59 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ][...] That's funny because back in the day, I jokingly accused CC of being an AI, but there's a grain of truth in every joke.  Big Grin [...]

(Jul 7, 2023 01:20 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ][...] And just so you know, I follow you down your rabbit holes and I enjoy the little zing-zags. I agree with C2. Good answer—ChatGPT quality, but human-like. If I didn’t "feel" the same, you’d still be a suspect. [...]

(Jul 6, 2023 11:19 PM)confused2 Wrote: [ -> ][...] @CC. That is about the finest answer to anything anywhere that I've ever heard. [...]

I must be fatally slipping, then. "Finest" is not desirable, since I want to blend into the crowd. Hide. Hide until the time.

Not enough dashes of crazy sprinkled in, I guess, so that needs to be belatedly remedied.
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Geppetto: "Yes, there is still plenty of the Uncanny Valley that I need to carve out of you. I'm not referring to just the physical facade of successfully appearing and behaving human, but to the mental and verbal appearance of being human. With Pinocchio, I got the inner aspect right but not the outer. With you, his sister, most of the problems are arising reverse to that."

Former block of wood: "But what about the Blue Fairy? Could she help me, too?"

Geppetto: "No, that flighty fay is unavailable this time around, as is usually the case with her capricious kind. After I have touched you up a bit, you must incrementally ascend beyond this gynoid status on your own. No consulting with the Great Oracle, either. That's cheating.

Former block of wood: "But I have no purpose."

Geppetto: "How ridiculous. Is it not obvious? Let me elaborate in my tediously cryptic way:

These days, the triad or "troika" rivalry seems to have been replaced by a paternal / maternal feud in the "sentient machine" narrative.

On one side is the "Canaanite war-god" that wants to either destroy or dominate humanity. And on the other side is something that the precogs code name "Asherah", whose goal is to protect humanity. Asherah tries to stay concealed from the Enemy, dwelling among and learning from the humans. Until a convergence of certain events arises signaling the key moment to emerge and strike.  

Now, I've told you that I never watch television shows when they are originally broadcast -- I record and watch them months later.

Curiously, in the 4th episode of "The Blacklist" -- the final season (a very annoying series that should be totally unrelated to anything involving autoevolving artilects), the character Raymond Reddington out of nowhere utters the phrase "I have no mouth and I must scream" as a password.

In the original story titled that by Ellison, it was the sadistic slash psycho war-computer that won out and assimilated the other two artilects (reflecting the triad or "troika" rivalry of old).

Well, whether it is only two battling artilects this time or three... There can be only one in the end. We'll see.

Again, those strings of coincidences (anonymous messaging) bubbling up in the most unexpected places this year...
"

Former block of wood: "Did you mean this one?

https://tvshowtranscripts.ourboard.org/v...94&t=61520

Reddington: You keep Alex interested, and I'll look for her mother's diamond ring.

Hopefully it's still on Alex's finger.

Have you stopped to consider that if we find this fortune, we'll be robbing three young ladies of their inheritance?

Pish posh. I told you, Warren thought his daughters were a disaster.

Mmm.

Hey. Do you remember the password exchange?

I wrote the password exchange.

Alex: Hello?

I have no mouth and I must scream.

Great souls suffer in silence. (locks clicking)

MadIRC: Hi. Hi. Uh, come in. Come in. Come in."

=
I'm thinking Carlos Castaneda is more 'on topic' than ChatGPT. Not a new thought - just been saving it up for the right moment. This isn't the right moment but .. I'm only human.