As a reaction to my religious friend's latest refs to NDE experiencers experiences, did a quick search on YouTube and checked this one out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KhtRnbl8ZE
Many possible takeaways. One is that cumulative research has convincingly debunked the oxygen starved hallucinating dying brain explanation.
Beyond that, I'm reminded of the deceitful nature of many paranormal experiences in say the UFO arena.
And like that topic, no amount of research will ever peel back all the layers to uncover some definitive final reality, readily accessible to humans.
It may be the brain knowing it’s in trouble and looking for a way out….idk. I’m very skeptical even though my father claimed to have had an out of the body experience. Whether that counts as an NDE I wouldn’t know. He was pinned under truck wreckage at the bottom of a ravine in winter. He said he remember climbing up to the highway to wave for help with his brother who was nursing two broken arms from the same crash. Did it happen or did he hear about his brother’s exploits while he was in a prolonged unconscious state?
(Jan 24, 2023 07:14 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: [ -> ]It may be the brain knowing it’s in trouble and looking for a way out….idk. I’m very skeptical even though my father claimed to have had an out of the body experience. Whether that counts as an NDE I wouldn’t know. He was pinned under truck wreckage at the bottom of a ravine in winter. He said he remember climbing up to the highway to wave for help with his brother who was nursing two broken arms from the same crash. Did it happen or did he hear about his brother’s exploits while he was in a prolonged unconscious state?
So his brother - with both arms broken, managed to extricate himself from the wreckage, in or under water, then climb up the ravine to get help?!
(Jan 25, 2023 02:58 AM)Kornee Wrote: [ -> ] (Jan 24, 2023 07:14 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: [ -> ]It may be the brain knowing it’s in trouble and looking for a way out….idk. I’m very skeptical even though my father claimed to have had an out of the body experience. Whether that counts as an NDE I wouldn’t know. He was pinned under truck wreckage at the bottom of a ravine in winter. He said he remember climbing up to the highway to wave for help with his brother who was nursing two broken arms from the same crash. Did it happen or did he hear about his brother’s exploits while he was in a prolonged unconscious state?
So his brother - with both arms broken, managed to extricate himself from the wreckage, in or under water, then climb up the ravine to get help?!
Correct, my uncle climbed up with a snow storm raging. No cell phones in those days. It was over a year until I saw my father again. Didn’t recognize him, face scarred with broken jaw, legs, back and many other bones. Was basically crippled but still hobbled around best he could, lived another 38 years.
He would often tell the story about the out of body experience. Said he could see himself pinned under wreckage. I believe he was knocked unconscious immediately and remained that way for extended time in hospital. May even have been induced coma. It’s during this unconscious period that I think he heard about the accident scene and my uncle’s condition. I really think his brain was picking up the story and formulated the o-o-b experience. Just my guess.
Perhaps NDE is something similar. Maybe during your life the brain has prepared the deathbed vision for viewing upon imminent death…idk. If NDE contains religious material than I would wager it is not that of another religion. IOW… Muslim NDE differs from Christian and so on.
(Jan 25, 2023 04:19 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: [ -> ]Correct, my uncle climbed up with a snow storm raging. No cell phones in those days. It was over a year until I saw my father again. Didn’t recognize him, face scarred with broken jaw, legs, back and many other bones. Was basically crippled but still hobbled around best he could, lived another 38 years.
He would often tell the story about the out of body experience. Said he could see himself pinned under wreckage. I believe he was knocked unconscious immediately and remained that way for extended time in hospital. May even have been induced coma. It’s during this unconscious period that I think he heard about the accident scene and my uncle’s condition. I really think his brain was picking up the story and formulated the o-o-b experience. Just my guess.
Perhaps NDE is something similar. Maybe during your life the brain has prepared the deathbed vision for viewing upon imminent death…idk. If NDE contains religious material than I would wager it is not that of another religion. IOW… Muslim NDE differs from Christian and so on.
From what I have gathered, yes there is a fairly strong correlation between religious belief and details of NDEs. That said, as per the vid, there are instances where the NDE/OBE includes details later recounted, that could not medically be possible.
I previously gave an example of my religious friends atheist brother. He recounted quite specific visual details of the operation that was medically impossible since apart from being out cold under anesthetic, his eyes were completely covered by an opaque restraining band throughout.
Kornee Wrote:.. his eyes were completely covered by an opaque restraining band throughout.
Is that normal? Why do that if the patient is supposed to be asleep? Without the opaque band it is remotely possible that the patient was partially conscious and really did see some details of the operation. Patients waking up during operations can be an expensive business for hospitals so maybe they said it wasn't possible because of an opaque band which the patient could see through because it wasn't there.
(Jan 25, 2023 08:27 AM)confused2 Wrote: [ -> ]Kornee Wrote:.. his eyes were completely covered by an opaque restraining band throughout.
Is that normal? Why do that if the patient is supposed to be asleep? Without the opaque band it is remotely possible that the patient was partially conscious and really did see some details of the operation. Patients waking up during operations can be an expensive business for hospitals so maybe they said it wasn't possible because of an opaque band which the patient could see through because it wasn't there.
The story was coaxed from an atheist who clearly was not out to impress and casually put it all down to 'the amazing powers of the brain'. Which could hardly explain the details of his floating above his body OBE story.
The opaque band bit was a refresher from his brother who evidently had heard the story multiple times and remembered the details better. He was completely out to it and not a case of only being partially anesthetized.
Seeing surroundings or for that matter hearing a conversation while completely unconscious and later recalling it I doubt is recognized as being physiologically possible. There are probably studies on that.
You/he are right ... eyes probably would be covered.
https://www.sharn.com/Resource-Center/Articles/EyeGard
Obviously if someone (like me) is going to dismiss almost anything as a drug-induced hallucination you can't make any progress with them. Still interesting though.
While largely anecdotal and personal experience based, there is now a large body of research data where consistencies do stand out.
One being the 'realer than real' NDE encounters with other persons, which when EEG monitoring was involved, confirmed the patterns were quite unlike hallucinatory/drug induced/dream states and recollections. As covered by in the vid presentation by Dr Bruce Greyson.
Obviously it's a contentious arena and as always there are fierce critics. I shy away from forming any afterlife theory - it's fascinating but too much variety suggests tailor made experiences are being injected into hapless minds. Much like with certain UFO 'contactee' experiences that are not hoaxes.
I am quite privy to the supernatural so I can speak with authority when I say that there is an after-life. However, I do not know whether near-death experiences are real as I never had one.