Make Way for Progress?

[Zinjanthropos]

Do you see local Historical Societies or those wishing to preserve the past as a hindrance to progress? Particularly replacement of old buildings or structures that are no longer required, outlived their usefulness or dangerous and in need of repair.

Happening right now in my neighborhood. After years of wrangling, old is going to make way for new.

https://www.niagaraparks.com/black-creek...eplacement

I live about a quarter mile up the road from the bridge in the link. The photo is from the Niagara River side looking west. I’m not on the creek bank so I don’t have water access but I have taken my boat under that bridge and there isn’t much room to spare. People with large boats don’t even try and even my neighbours along the creek have resorted to building floating docks with an outboard attached just to get from their place to the river. It’s nuisance for them.

I had no shortage of historical society people bang on my door protesting the bridge replacement, which is set to commence very shortly. They would look at me like I had three heads when I said I was in favour of it. I understand wanting to preserve the uniqueness and beauty of the scene but I think we need it. Oh well, they asked.

The construction is going to cause me some problems, I won’t be able to go to Buffalo or Fort Erie along a pretty scenic road but I still use it to get to Niagara Falls from another road just out of photo range, either way about 10km drives. Plus they’re doing it during fall, winter, spring months so let’s get it done.

That building on right side of photo in the video is actually a restaurant so I don’t know what the owner had to say or if he’s being compensated for lost revenue. The only restaurant along the Upper Niagara Parkway. Be nice if they allowed him some dock space after this so river travellers can stop in and dine. Won’t be able to access his business from any direction once this starts unless they put in a temporary entranceway from that other nearby road.

Are some things worth saving from the wrecking ball? Are there really good reasons to preserve? Does preservation mean much considering how time passes and things are forgotten? IMO just do it. Isn’t there enough historical facts contained in books, videos, recordings and such? It’s as if stored information isn’t to be trusted and the visual experience is necessary to confirm the record.

[C C]

It's kind of the opposite around here. One town tore down its oldest, multi-story building without a second thought. It was made out of hand-hewn stone blocks, a material native to the area.

I guess the "heritage activists" are at least old school, out of necessity. The new order is probably gung-ho about eliminating anything that might be a symbolic reminder of an oppressive past filled with social injustice.

[confused2]

My first thought about your bridge was "How old is it?" so I must think it matters. My second thought is that the arch has its feet in the water - I doubt it was build like that so either the water level has risen (unlikely) or the person taking the picture waited until the level was high to emphasise how low the bridge is. Seems to have been some division between the people who wanted to take bigger boats under it and the folks that thought it was doing a good job keeping the bigger boats out. Turns out the age of the bridge is only a very small part of the argument. IMHO it wasn't a stunning piece of architecture even if it was old .. the new bridge might look better. When the new bridge is built the boats won't stop at the restaurant .. another will be built at the next bridge higher up .. and then that bridge will be too low .. and so it goes on. I suppose that's 'life' but I can't say I particularly like it.

A thing about keeping things the same is that people tend to move towards a thing they like - if they want something better maybe they should think about going to the place they like better - rather than risk destroying the thing they originally liked. Maybe you can make things 'better' by removing old things but its a path to be trodden with care.

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It's kind of the opposite around here. One town tore down its oldest, multi-story building without a second thought. It was made out of hand-hewn stone blocks, a material native to the area.

I guess the "heritage activists" are at least old school, out of necessity. The new order is probably gung-ho about eliminating anything that might be a symbolic reminder of an oppressive past filled with social injustice.

In the UK our old stuff often predates the discovery of America - the newer 'old stuff' is seamlessly joined to the older so despite our part in social injustices we don't see the same fault lines as I suspect you have in America. My last house was 200 years old and built on a Roman city wall. The city cathedral was built in 1133.

[Zinjanthropos]

I haven’t lived here for last 20 years but here is the hospital where I was born. It was demolished along with a second hospital to make way for the new hospital erected a few miles away. Is this really worth the trouble preserving?

https://www.niagarathisweek.com/news/wha...76170.html

From what I’ve heard this was the result of a long battle with historical society. Wouldn’t a nice photo hanging in local museum be better than this. Haven’t driven by there in a year or so. Last time I checked it was still standing. Not sure what they’re going to do with it.

[C C]

I haven’t lived here for last 20 years but here is the hospital where I was born. It was demolished along with a second hospital to make way for the new hospital erected a few miles away. Is this really worth the trouble preserving?

https://www.niagarathisweek.com/news/wha...76170.html

From what I’ve heard this was the result of a long battle with historical society. Wouldn’t a nice photo hanging in local museum be better than this. Haven’t driven by there in a year or so. Last time I checked it was still standing. Not sure what they’re going to do with it.

The stuff a community would want to preserve is whatever would attract tourists. The only reason a junky-looking item like the Hackberry General Store in Arizona is still around and active is because it is along part of what used to be historic Route 66.

If an area instead wants peace and quiet instead of money from visitors, then don't leave old structures hanging around. Even in ghost towns of Western states like Montana, the current owners of the properties that the remains are on (usually farmers, ranchers, etc) are plagued by sightseeers despite putting up no trespassing signs. They should tear the buildings down.

In Alaska they had to airlift the rusty "Magic Bus" that Chris McCandless stayed in due to all the pilgrims and idiots from around the world it was attracting who would routinely get themselves into trouble in that wilderness.

If some standing relic gets associated with a romantic or tragic or mythic past, that fanciful aura will lure people. Whereas your basic rube just sees a pile of ####, the concept-laden idealists were projecting augmented reality upon forsaken edifices long before digital technology existed. Not to mention the money-minded opportunists exploiting them.

Kind of akin to the intelligentsia projecting nobility upon bad and low-standard human behavior. It's a convergence of both reality-impairment and career-advancing utilization

[confused2]

Architectural snobbery is strong within me .. but.. any normal Canadian walking past the door left from the hospital would probably wonder if white folks were even capable of making a doorway without fouling it up in some way. It's time has passed (if it ever had one).

[Zinjanthropos]

Hold on a minute. Something more powerful is going to delay it some more. My wife just told me she drove past it and the new bridge construction will have to wait for an archaeological dig. This area is right across from USA and a war was fought along here from 1812-14. Many things from cannonballs to buttons to dead soldiers and Indian remains are occasionally found in our municipality. I’ve heard some people say that it’s better to say nothing should you come across artifacts and remains if you want to finish construction of whatever you’re building.

I guess the battle rages on. However it does seem archaeology has more oomph than history although it’s practically same thing. I just had an open field behind me turn into a subdivision. I guess they never found anything digging…ya sure.lol

[stryder]

What could be done if they want to keep the bridge, is move it. Obviously it costs to do, but it would at least allow them to keep a bridge for prosperity should it be choosen. (that would mean breaking it down piece by piece and re-assembling it somewhere that isn't going to effect water traffic.)

Probably best used on a small dyke or spur from the main river.

As for history, well theres preservation based upon known history ("X did Y here", although that could be misread) and just a building being old. Is it architecturally unique? does if fit with the area? (such a theme) Do the community appreciate it for it's splendor, or just use it to cross a river?

The problem is getting to the bottom of those answers for everyone in a given area takes time, and some people obviously like to get involved for the sake of involvement.

We have a few buildings locally that can go through that rigmarole, notibly the Public Houses (or the no longer public houses converted to houses or bulldozed to makeway for more houses) Historically they were haunts of the local communities, fullfilling a need for entertainment, boarding (and sometimes washing) Those community spaces are disappearing at an alarming rate, even the various methodist churches and worshipping sites have slowly eroded to "more housing".

Some of the older buildings do of course have their problems (such as the quality of mortar used and the effects of time on untreated timbers) preserving is costly, however the alternative is a world filled with tightly compacted mass-produced "same" looking monstrosities with little to no outside space. (In those cases people tend to pick to keep the old buildings more to stop over development than because of the history)